Lenore: Just a little reminder that
Lenore: silence breaks after breakfast tomorrow.
Lenore: Just as per normal.
Lenore: So today's topic is voice and
Lenore: we've been thinking a lot about and talking a lot about
Lenore: voice as it pertains to speaking out, especially speaking out in our
Lenore: community and speaking out in our larger world.
Lenore: my session we need this evening is going to bring it back as I do to the individual level.
Lenore: I read in a Baha'i book again. Another, you know example of secular Dhamma being able to take wisdom from anywhere.
Lenore: You may have come across the the religion Baha'i
Lenore: It was a little book that just had a bunch of phrases, inspirational phrases. And what have you in it? And in it? It's said, and this is my I've I've modernized the wording a little bit, but
Lenore: material fire consumes the body.
Lenore: the fire of the tongue consumes the heart and the soul.
Lenore: So, living aside any notion of a soul. These words point to how destructive speech can be. Harmful speech can be. and there's a reason it got a whole path to it a whole fold to itself in the path in the eightfold path.
Lenore: And if we're going to try and live our lives somewhere on that spectrum between non harm and kindness. Then we have to focus on speech
Lenore: as part of our practice.
Lenore: It's arguably the most frequent means with which we engage
Lenore: with the world.
Lenore: So we've been talking a lot about the big global crises that we face, which are clearly and obviously extremely important.
Lenore: But the world in crisis is not just this
Lenore: 110 plus armed conflicts around the world. It's not just climate change and all the big things.
Lenore: It's the worlds of the people that we touch every day the people whose lives that we touch every day. and in the developed world
Lenore: there is, you may remember, in that list of crises that we were working with in the whether to see or not to see exercise. I had one in there that I that I called the unhappiness epidemic.
Lenore: And you know, in the developed world
Lenore: the rates of anxiety, depression, and suicide are on the rise, and they were well before Covid hit.
Lenore: I've been, as I've mentioned to you a couple of times for many years facilitating leadership development
Lenore: programs. And
Lenore: the I actually developed a program that that I ran for years, and it started with a I'd have a 2 h meeting with every
Lenore: potential participant and
Lenore: The purpose of that meeting was for me to assess whether I thought they were going to benefit from it.
Lenore: whether they're love of comfort
Lenore: outweighed their love of learning, because learning is pretty uncomfortable sometimes.
Lenore: So to do that II got them to sort of fill out a little, you know, answer some questions and see how comfortable. They were
Lenore: being open
Lenore: and sharing their vulnerability.
Lenore: And then I'd have a sort of heart to heart with them in this in this two-hour session.
Lenore: And so it's incredible, you know, and often it was the first time I'd met these participants.
Lenore: and it doesn't matter what kind of person they are. The the most. The company that I did the most leadership work with was a equipment hire company.
Lenore: So my clientele were equipment, loving blokes and so I was having these 2 other conversations with these real blokey blokes.
Lenore: And yeah, you know, it was amazing. The
Lenore: the
Lenore: depth and realness of those of many of those most of those conversations that I had with people. So they?
Lenore: I asked. As you know, I asked searching questions quite deliberately
Lenore: about families of origin, about turning points in life. You know some of these things that
Lenore: to get them to share some real stuff.
Lenore: and through the course of that and through then, also, you know, running leadership programs for many years.
Lenore: Something an insight that came to me is you don't need too many people in a room
Lenore: before you've got someone dealing with some pretty tough stuff.
Lenore: And
Lenore: so you know, we talk about these big crises, and you know that I know and and think and believe and act that they're important.
Lenore: But the individual world is also important.
Lenore: If my
Lenore: safe, comfortable, prosperous world
Lenore: is so
Lenore: bad that I take my own life.
Lenore: how can we say the individual world doesn't matter?
Lenore: How can we say that? It's only about
Lenore: the group and the global? It's also about the individual. So hence my session with you tonight is is more about our words
Lenore: to the people whose lives we touch.
Lenore: On a daily basis.
Lenore: You might have had the experience. I don't know. Maybe the parents in the room have have had experiences like this. For me. It's been
Lenore: primarily leadership participants. I'm having it again now that I'm coaching kids but where someone says to you, oh, I remember when you said that thought that that thought that.
Lenore: And you know you usually when someone says that your ears prick up and you're waiting. Okay, what did I say?
Lenore: And you may or may not remember it.
Lenore: But
Lenore: what this experience shows is
Lenore: that words can stick. They can really stay with people.
Lenore: our words matter.
Lenore: And you can probably also, I mean, there's not even any. Probably we could all recall things that have been said to us that were damaging.
Lenore: that were hurtful
Lenore: at the time, so words can be weapons. They can be a solve for hurt and pain.
Lenore: They can be inspiration for behaving differently. and they can be a rallying call for group action. They're really powerful
Lenore: things. They're arguably the most frequent impact on our world that we have.
Lenore: So I said that words can be weapons. We all know that. And when when that's the case, it's often in situations where we're feeling reactive.
Lenore: And we're often feeling reactive around others when we perceive some kind of potential rupture to our relationship with them. Or we think someone's been unkind or unfair
Lenore: in the actions, perhaps treading on our needs.
Lenore: essentially, when we're feeling hurt or afraid in in some way.
Lenore: and the feeling of anger is also a pretty good indication that hurt or fear. Present
Lenore: anger is usually a defense to protect ourselves. I remember it was actually an actress who I first heard say this
Lenore: Susan Sarandon.
Lenore: that she was being interviewed in on TV, and and she said, our anger is never the first emotion.
Lenore: and I've thought about that for a lot of years and played with it and tested it out, and I've found it to be true. Anger is a defense, and it's defending something. Softer and more vulnerable underneath it.
Lenore: So anger is, you know, a reaction. It's often what comes up in reactivity. but it's usually there to protect something softer and more vulnerable.
Lenore: So
Lenore: Gothamer's advice. He he talked about
Lenore: speech and my shorthand for Godima's attitude to speech. And it's and I use this all the time.
Lenore: Is is it true?
Lenore: Is it helpful? Is at the right time.
Lenore: Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it the right time? So
Lenore: true? Is, you know, in some ways obvious? Is it factual? Is it deceptive or misleading in any way. Is it straightforward?
Lenore: I remember reading
Lenore: in a suit a
Lenore: be no deceiver of the world.
Lenore: so it's obviously not just lying.
Lenore: Helpful includes that it's beneficial comes from an intent of goodwill
Lenore: that it's unifying rather than divisive.
Lenore: And that it's
Lenore: palatable. It's digestible. But it's delivered in a way that I can take it in.
Lenore: That doesn't trigger somebody's defenses. That's pleasant, affectionate, and endearing. If we can manage that.
Lenore: And that's where somebody mentioned earlier today. The issues of tone
Lenore: and nonverbal communication, too. So you know, word, choice, facial expression, tone of voice.
Lenore: all come into this.
Lenore: this issue of
Lenore: a voice of speech, even though it's not all voice, it's it's communication.
Lenore: An interesting one on this
Lenore: in the sort of is the issue of meaningfulness of speech.
Lenore: So there's talk about idle chit, chat, and gossip
Lenore: not being a great way to use one's voice.
Lenore: and that's an interesting one that I've played with over the years.
Lenore: and
Lenore: as I've sort of developed my practice over the years, I have indeed found myself much less interested in and willing to engage in idle chit chat.
Lenore: and certainly gossip. especially if it's
Lenore: Well, yeah, generally. I just. I try to check myself if I'm participating. And there was a while there where I you know, I kind of didn't really even want to go to parties or big group things because of this.
Lenore: Since then I've sort of the the pendulum's come back a little bit.
Lenore: because I see sometimes chit chat, you know. Idle chit chat is really just saying
Lenore: I'm friendly. I see you. I'm with you. I want to know you. you know, and the words themselves actually aren't the point.
Lenore: It's really just that you're saying I'm willing to engage. I'm willing to be friendly with you. And so, almost not being willing to engage not being willing to have idle chit chat is, you know, potentially harmful. It's potentially saying, I don't, you know, not interested in you, not willing to engage with you?
Lenore: and it's also sometimes just a joy, you know, sharing a humorous moment with someone. For example.
Lenore: some of you might know Jill Shepherd. She's a Duma teacher who often runs the New Year retreat in the Blue Mountains in Sydney. A bunch of years ago. Now she came and gave a talk at Beecher's Sangha.
Lenore: and she stayed the night at our place, and
Lenore: I'll never forget sitting on the couch with her.
Lenore: I can't remember you. Somebody in the room might know the name. There's an Australian woman who makes these little videos of herself. She's a sort of plumpish.
Lenore: middle-aged, suburban Australian woman.
Lenore: So lisp! Yes, I think that's it. And she makes these videos that are a sort of takeoff of some celebrity.
Lenore: And but and so she sort of mimics them and videos herself. But you know, the celebrity is usually
Lenore: yeah. Has no body fat, lots of makeup.
Lenore: It's terribly curated, and she does it, just as you know, the suburban housewife in in the in.
Lenore: you know, cheek, Trackie decks, and and Jill was showing me this, and you know we were having a real laugh, you know, sitting on the couch.
Lenore: you know. That's I don't know that could be considered idle chit chat. And yet, you know, here I was with this
Lenore: as close as you can come to a you know, nun, even though she's not I don't think. You know. engaging in idle chit chat on the couch and
Lenore: didn't see any problem with that. It was good fun.
Lenore: So that's that's the helpful, you know, the helpful for me covers in my in my little, you know, quick in the moment. Check. Is it true? Is it helpful? Is at the right time helpful covers, you know all those things good, intent, beneficial, delivered, you know, helpfully
Lenore: uniting, uniting of people rather than divisive of people. and then the right time. And so right time is a judgment about a judgment call about. You know the impact that it's going to have on the receiver. If you choose to
Lenore: choose to say what you're going to say now rather than at another time.
Lenore: you know. Are they in an emotional state to be able to take it in?
Lenore: Are you alone with the other person, or is somebody else listening in in that story I shared with you a few days ago about the grumpy
Lenore: hurdles coach, who told me I had a real problem with my hurdles technique. And yeah, when I decided I was going to go and talk to him about it.
Lenore: it took 2 or 3 nights of seeing him before I could.
Lenore: because I thought I'll get him on his own. I don't want to get him in front of other people, because, you know
Lenore: they could embarrass him and could make him more likely to
Lenore: reacts badly, you know. So I thought, when's the right time? The right time is when I can get him on his own
Lenore: without his his squad around. So Bearing in mind the the timing of it.
Lenore: So before I jumping to tonight's offering, which is a very practical thing that I hope you're going to find really useful, and you'll take with you and and use, you know, whenever it's helpful.
Lenore: There's another tactic that I actually meant to share with you the other day when we're talking about intentions or imagination
Lenore: at the time. and that is a little tactic. So it's it's an element of voice. That can be used either when you feel
Lenore: there might be a conflict brewing. or even if the conflict is kind of already underway. and
Lenore: you can, if done skillfully, take the wind out of the sails. Other. and that is simply to ask, and we can ask this of others and also of ourselves.
Lenore: what's my intention here?
Lenore: Or you know what's your intention here? or
Lenore: you know there are other words you can use to ask the same question. You know, what impact would you like to have with this? What impact are you trying to have here.
Lenore: It's
Lenore: question that I actually wish I had thought of it in that moment when that grumpy coach said to me, You are real problems with your hurdle technique. Because in the moments that followed that
Lenore: that that kind of what went through my mind was first, the first response in my mind was, Oh, that's interesting. Ask him what what he thinks. The problem is.
Lenore: because I just I'm a bit of a learning machine, and I'm always interested to hear you know. What? What do you think is wrong here? But then this all happens in Nanoseconds. Then I thought, he's not. He's not saying this to be constructive and helpful. He's saying it to be insulting
Lenore: and then so
Lenore: in the moment the best I could do was just say nothing and walk away. But actually, when I thought back about it, I wished I'd had the presence of mind to say. What's your intention with that comment, John.
Lenore: I just I would love to have seen what he said.
Lenore: so it can. It can actually, really, just when when a conflict is kind of getting a steam up.
Lenore: If you go back to intentions.
Lenore: it can be a really really helpful thing, just as a means of, you know.
Lenore: using speech to benefit relationship and also of myself. Actually. you know, if I'm thinking about saying something. and I've thought about it in that scenario, too. You know what's my intention? Why do I want to talk to him?
Lenore: What outcome am I hoping to achieve here? What's my agenda?
Lenore: okay. So in today's session. I want to offer you a practical tool. To help with the ethical wielding of our words.
Lenore: And it's it covers both content and process it. This isn't my creation.
Lenore: It comes from. Some of you might already know it. Nonviolent communication. Have
Lenore: people a couple of nods around the room. Sometimes it's called compassionate
Lenore: communication. Marshall Rosenberg is the the chap who came up with it. It's a really powerful tool that when we do it well, it really boosts
Lenore: both the true checkbox
Lenore: in. Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it the right time and the helpful check? Yeah, checkbox?
Lenore: And the other thing it does is really boost our own mindfulness of our emotions. of what we're what we're actually going through in a in a particular situation in a moment.
Lenore: which is a hugely helpful thing on the path to dismantling reactivity. So those of you who've read my book would know my little take on on the second task.
Lenore: Not so much letting reactivity be, although that's an important part of it, but is also more actively dismantling it and looking at how the reactivity
Lenore: is put together the causes and conditions, and seeing if we can undo them somehow
Lenore: and simply being able to name a feeling accurately.
Lenore: it, it helps that feeling loosen its grip on you. It helps that reactivity. If it's present, loosen its grip on you.
Lenore: And then the likelihood that reactivity is going to jump into the driver's seat of your behaviour.
Lenore: Becomes lower.
Lenore: So we're going to practice a skill today that you can take with you, and you can use that will help you stay on the on the non harm to kindness. End of the spectrum. and it involves speaking up for
Lenore: the emotions that you're truly feeling with what we call clean language. So rather, what often what we do when we say when we talk about our feelings is that we cloak rather than saying a feeling, we'll we'll
Lenore: will insert an assumption. an interpretation, or an accusation. So, for example.
Lenore: I'm feeling
Lenore: belittled.
Lenore: Belittled's not a feeling
Lenore: belittled is, I am
Lenore: perceiving you, or interpreting your behaviour as belittling towards me
Lenore: what I might be feeling. I'm just making this up, but is hurt.
Lenore: maybe
Lenore: stuck
Lenore: disconnected from you.
Lenore: So when so so, this simple process of even speaking actual feelings.
Lenore: when we're talking about feelings rather than
Lenore: using words that can be accusations can be. Assumptions can be interpretations, is a really, really powerful if you can walk away with even just that
Lenore: from tonight's session and use it. it'll have an impact.
Lenore: But there's a second bit that's really helpful, too, here, and sometimes it knows. Sometimes it takes
Lenore: some practice, and sometimes it takes a bit of
Lenore: stopping and thinking and
Lenore: investigating what we're feeling in it in a moment to be able to identify this. But the second thing it does, so we speak out our feelings cleanly.
Lenore: and then we articulate the needs that we're trying to care for
Lenore: and asking for the behavior that would help.
Lenore: Now that sounds quite easy. Well, sorry. It sounds quite simple.
Lenore: and it is, but it's not easy. However, when we get it right, it's incredibly powerful. My husband and I try to envy. See things when we've got conflicts that you know have a bit of reactivity around them.
Lenore: And what I found that if if you do it in, if you use these skills and these language, this language in the, in the early stages of a conflict.
Lenore: it prevents it can, it can actually prevent it from ever kind of getting off the ground. And if it's already arisen, it can just take the wind out of a sails.
Lenore: So it's really, really powerful.
Lenore: And it also builds like trying, even just trying to do this with someone that you care about builds close, trusting, caring relationship. and it just it deoxygenates
Lenore: conflicts
Lenore: even with people that you that you know. If you don't have a relationship with me, it still can work with them. So
Lenore: now a lot of you have probably come across the good old eyes statement before.
Lenore: So just to recap on that it's a. It's a somewhat skillful means of speaking up for what's going on for me if I'm upset about something. So the basic format is
Lenore: when you
Lenore: dot dot dot dot insert action, you know, behavior, or what was said or what was done, what was not said or not done. I feel dot dot dot Dot, we insert a feeling, and
Lenore: it'd really help me if you'd be willing to
Lenore: dot dot dot dot dot ask for the behavior that you want, so that's sort of more or less the basic
Lenore: by statement that a lot of people would might come across in various trainings of different kinds.
Lenore: And that's definitely a better. That's a definitely improvement on a lot of the more reactive ways that we can communicate when we're feeling upset.
Lenore: However, Mvc process Turbocharges, the helpfulness of this kind of way of speaking with 3 changes.
Lenore: The first one is that rather than starting with when you.
Lenore: which immediately puts the focus on the other person.
Lenore: If anyone's ever done this with you, soon, as someone says, when you the anxiety goes up, oh, what am I done?
Lenore: So
Lenore: instead of that, it starts with me and my sensorium.
Lenore: So it might be
Lenore: Okay. Regarding our conversation yesterday.
Lenore: when I remember
Lenore: sharing my idea with you for what we do
Lenore: on our week off.
Lenore: and you ignored me and then changed the topic.
Lenore: So I'm starting with me when I remember what's happening is here. I'm remembering something that happened.
Lenore: then we then same with the I statement we go move into, I feel. But here's here's where the clean feelings comes in where the clean language comes in. This is really powerful.
Lenore: and we might need to take some time to reflect. And I've got we're going to do a bit of practice. I've got some little sheets to help you with this. You're going to work on a conflict that you've had recently.
Lenore: So the norm is to use perceptions, interpretations, assumptions that often contain
Lenore: covert blame
Lenore: of the other person or covert criticism rather than the actual emotion that we're feeling.
Lenore: So let me give you some examples.
Lenore: you might resonate with maybe saying something like, I feel
Lenore: unfairly accused. Okay, unfairly accused is not a feeling that's an action.
Lenore: I feel or I feel criticised.
Lenore: criticized is not a feeling. It's saying
Lenore: I perceive you to have criticized me. It's not actually your feeling So
Lenore: when this comes at us, you know. If someone says to you. let's say if someone says to me.
Lenore: I feel betrayed, it's another one betrayed's not a feeling
Lenore: the trades in action. If someone says to me, I feel betrayed and in my mind, and what I was doing in my little world. There was no betrayal going on. But this person is
Lenore: upset, and they're telling me that they feel betrayed.
Lenore: As soon as that comes out. I have real trouble
Lenore: engaging with the rest of that of what's coming.
Lenore: almost feels as if you know to be able to open and and absorb and listen and embrace. I've got to accept that. I've betrayed them.
Lenore: and if I didn't. that's not what actually was happening from my little end of the world. I can't get past that. I can't get past the fact that
she's telling me that I've betrayed her, and I haven't.
Lenore: So if instead.
Lenore: we say you know I feel shocked.
Lenore: hurt.
Lenore: I felt defensive.
Lenore: I felt disconnected from you.
Lenore: Their feelings.
Lenore: and
Lenore: the beauty of that is that if I care about you so this is especially powerful. If if it's in relationship with someone who actually cares about you.
Lenore: I can. I can walk forward into that because I don't want to hurt you. I don't wanna.
Lenore: I don't want you feeling defensive. I don't want you feeling hurt and and disconnected from me. so I can open to that. And I can listen.
Lenore: The other thing that happens if we use those covert criticisms or those covert, you know, blames instead of nice, clean feelings.
Lenore: is that
Lenore: we can get stuck in an argument about what I was or wasn't doing.
Lenore: You know. I felt betrayed. but I wasn't betraying, you know, and I'll get stuck on that, and then we'll and then and then the discussion instead of you know good communication about what was going on for you and
Lenore: you know. What need
Lenore: you felt was was not being looked after in that moment. We end up in this debate about what I was or wasn't doing.
Lenore: and if any of this is resounding with any of you. But this is like, you know, we've just been half an hour arguing. We haven't even talked about the actual issue yet.
Lenore: So then, the third section, once we've been able to say, Okay, this is what I'm thinking about. This is what I when I think about this thing that happened. this is how I feel. We use a nice, clean feeling. That's an actual feeling.
Lenore: And then the next section, which is also super. Helpful. is we? It lays bare our motive.
Lenore: So it lays bare the need that I'm trying to have met the founder of Nbc. Marshall Rosenberg. He says, every criticism, judgment, diagnosis, and expression of anger
Lenore: is the tragic expression of an unmet need.
Lenore: So this is where we speak up for our needs. We own them and needs are pretty universal.
Lenore: So they're pretty hard to argue with, and most people are going to empathize empathise with them. So they're things like my need for peace.
Lenore: my need for closeness. my need for intimacy with you. my need for trust.
Lenore: my need for freedom, my need for authenticity my need for safety. you know. No one's going to say to you, oh, we shouldn't have a need for safety. That's your problem.
Lenore: right? We we get that we get if we really talk about real, actual needs.
Lenore: Anyone who cares for us is going to open to this.
Lenore: So
Lenore: again, especially in relationship. When conflict occurs, we're usually wanting to keep that relationship healthy. We actually care about each other.
Lenore: And so when we practice the courage
Lenore: to speak up for our needs. In the midst of this we reorient the conversation towards that care.
Lenore: So it might be. You know I feel shocked, hurt, defensive, and and disconnected from from you.
Lenore: because I very much value trust, honesty
and closeness.
Lenore: You know. How can someone who loves you
Lenore: object to that?
Lenore: And then the last component is the same as the standard I statement. So we we then ask for the specific behavior that would help out meet our need.
Lenore: So it might be
Lenore: When I share an idea with you. I'd like you to
Lenore: at least acknowledge that I've
Lenore: I've shared an idea with you. If not, talk about it
Lenore: rather than just ignore what I said and change the topic.
Lenore: So we we're really specific about what it is that we'd like
Lenore: from our partner, or from our friend, or from whoever it is in future.
Lenore: So
Lenore: I'll give you a contrasting example. A non-envc example might sound something like this. I'm feeling really irked and unfairly treated by the way you assumed the worst in me.
Lenore: and put words into my mouth, telling me I was accusing you of whatever it was.
Lenore: All I did was come up with a suggestion, and you'd ask me to that you'd asked me to, and you turned on me
Lenore: is all these assumptions and interpretations and accusations in the way that I've you know, presented that situation
Lenore: so instead. What if we had, you know, when I think about how you represent, if I'm using exactly the same kind of situation when I think about how you replied.
Lenore: frowning, and with a terse tone, asking me
Lenore: if I was saying something that I wasn't saying.
Lenore: I feel shocked, hurt, defensive, and disconnected from you.
Lenore: I really value trust. honesty, awareness, and closeness with you.
Lenore: and it'd be helpful to me if you're worried that I'm saying something critical. Just clarify it with me.
Lenore: and if you can do that with a friendly tone that'd be really helpful.
Lenore: So can you hear that? How that is non accusatory?
Lenore: It's nonjudging. It's I'm not saying, you know, you're treating me unfairly, and I'm not accusing you of putting words in my mouth. I'm not accusing you of turning on me.
Lenore: I'm just saying this is what went on for me. And what would be really helpful. And because I had this need, and one of those needs is to be close with you.
Lenore: Yeah. So it's inviting the other person to care for me rather than defend themselves.
Lenore: and it assumes that the other person cares for me
Lenore: rather than assuming that they don't, and that they're trying to hurt me.
Lenore: It invites them to help, and triggers kindness and care. rather than inviting them to so defend themselves and trigger, either self-protection or counterattack or both.
Lenore: So
Lenore: what I'm gonna suggest is that you take identify a real conflict that you've had recently. And I just say recently, just
Lenore: something that you can remember in quite good detail doesn't have to be a big one. It can just be. you know, a
Lenore: 3 out of 10,
Lenore: and we'll see if we can
Lenore: use. I've got a couple of handouts here for you, one on clean feeling words
Lenore: and one on
Lenore: needs.
Lenore: So for those of you who'd like to participate, you'll need bit of paper something to write with and if you can start by just jotting down a conflict that you'd like to use as a test case.
Lenore: and I've got I'll hand out these
Lenore: sheets that'll be help for you in the exercise. People at home.
Lenore: Hopefully, you've already printed it out. I sent to you last night.
Lenore: Yeah, thanks.
Lenore: And you're gonna take one and then pass them on, and then I'll grab the needs list.
Lenore: Yeah, you need one of those as well.
Lenore: yeah. Sure.
Lenore: like, 2 people
Lenore: question everything.
Lenore: it's a way of injecting some? Is it rationality, honesty, and care into it?
Lenore: But what if the people are not on the same page?
Lenore: One is of pushing on the constraint for city
Lenore: way, and the other one is already. Yep. Good question and emotional one is a question.
Lenore: Yep.
Lenore: yeah, that's a good question. I'll answer that I'll just repeat the question so that others had
Lenore: they're not just asked a really good question. So what if
Lenore: one person is already, you know, really agitated and worked up and and emotional. You know. How do you approach it?
Lenore: And
Lenore: when when we're really agitated, when our arousal level is too high. We literally were useless at at being able to constructively deal with conflict. So in that situation, literally taking time out
Lenore: literally saying, You know, should we come back to this in half an hour?
Lenore: 20 min is, I think, about the amount of time that it requires for our physiology to Come back down from over arousal
Lenore: so literally just saying, you should we come back and talk about this in half an hour?
Okay? Well.
Lenore: if the other person. So the question was, what if the other person doesn't want to? We can't make people resolve a conflict with us.
Lenore: So
Lenore: you know, if they're not willing to do it, or they can't do it in the moment, and they're not willing to engage with you later on.
Lenore: when they calm down.
Lenore: That's that then becomes the issue.
Lenore: you know, and you could use this kind of language to then speak up for that issue.
Lenore: when I think about the time I tried to talk to you about. You know. Blah blah blah incident or blah blah blah conflict
Lenore: and
Lenore: and you got really upset, and I
Lenore: asked if we could come back in a half an hour, and you said, No.
Lenore: yep.
Lenore: yep, yep. Then you walk away. I mean you can't force them.
Lenore: You can't force somebody to deal constructively, constructively, with a conflict.
Lenore: And so what I was just saying was, you know, you can then try and come back later and talk about the fact that they weren't willing to deal with it. That that can then be. The thing you need to talk about is, yeah, how do we deal with conflicts?
Lenore: Because when I think about the last time we tried to do it.
Lenore: and
Lenore: I tried to get us to take time out, and you weren't willing to do that. And
Lenore: so I'm feeling stuck
Lenore: and
Lenore: despondent and
Lenore: confused because of my need for connection with you.
Lenore: which I don't know how to do that. If if we're not, if we can't talk through this
Lenore: this problem that we have.
Lenore: So then the the issue would then become, how do we do conflict together like at a later point? Once I'd calm down.
Lenore: But in that moment I don't think you can't. You know that we can't force people to deal with conflict
Lenore: at all, let alone constructively. We can only
Lenore: skill ourselves up as much as we can.
Lenore: and approach the conflicts from our end
Lenore: as helpfully as we can.
Lenore: Yeah.
Lenore: no, no, right. There's a few people online that were unclear on which attachment or didn't seem to receive the the handout.
Lenore: So there's this, this, there's this different. It's called 5 page feelings and needs. But it's the only thing I sent them last night. Okay, so
Lynda: you repeat the name of the email that you sent
Lenore: it was document for my last session on Saturday night, or something like that, was the title of the email.
Okay.
Lenore: I think there's a number of people online that are coming back saying they didn't receive it. I'm wondering if you've got an electronic copy. I can quickly email out.
Lenore: have they checked their emails? Yes. So this is what it looks like, the people online.
Lynda: I don't know if they?
Lenore: Hello! No, no, it's it's Linda. We II didn't receive that email and others online, apparently didn't either. II received no, that's what I sent the online people last night.
Lenore: I didn't receive that. I received the one the elements of flowers. You've got the exactly same thing except you've got black and white, all shoved onto one page definitely hasn't been received. Oh, you haven't got oh, sorry!
Lenore: That's good money with the problem.
Lenore: It was gonna be a 200 page color dog print print job. I was like, I can't do this.
Lenore: Okay, as you go. And do you mind just handing those around that is that one says needs you need it not needs, but not the other, but not the other one. You need one that says needs, and one that says feelings.
Lenore: So that's the remaining feelings. Once
Lenore: thanks, a lot
Lenore: have our online people found it.
Lenore: okay.
Lenore: okay, so identify as a situation a conflict you've had recently
Lenore: that didn't go as well as you would have liked that. You think you know you'd like to read. Have? Have a do-over if you could.
Lenore: preferably with someone, you have a relationship with a relationship that you'd like to continue.
Lenore: So people in the room, you need 2 pieces of paper, one's double-sided and one's single-sided one's needs and one's feelings.
Sure.
Lenore: Okay.
Lenore: so
Lenore: let's get curious about this
Lenore: situation. This interaction.
Lenore: So let's start with the stimulus.
Lenore: What was it you saw or heard.
Lenore: or imagined or remembered.
Lenore: that triggered the difficult feelings for you?
Lenore: Was it something someone said or didn't say something they did or didn't do.
Lenore: you know, might have been tone.
Lenore: It might have been body language. It might have been something they said.
Lenore: something you
Lenore: thought they should were going to say, but didn't.
Lenore: What were the actual, the actual tricia for the difficult feelings. As you think about this, try and avoid what I call invisibles. So they're things the other person thought.
Lenore: felt. intended.
Lenore: Anything that requires reading the other person's mind, or knowing what the other person's feeling. or one team.
Lenore: So for this part of it. Just stick to what was said or what was done. You know. What did you see? What did you hear?
Lenore: But stimulated the difficult feelings for you.
Lenore: What did you observe? Or here?
Lenore: Okay, so now let's identify the feelings that arise for you when you remember those actions or words.
Lenore: So the handout I've given you with the double-sided one here or at home. You've got a couple of pages with feelings.
Lenore: and
Lenore: there are 2 types unpleasant and pleasant.
Lenore: So the unpleasant feelings are associated with unmet needs, and the pleasant feelings are associated with met needs. So because we're talking about a conflict, it's good chance it's going to be on the unpleasant side.
Lenore: So see if you can identify. Have a go yourself first.
Lenore: but then have a look on this page.
Lenore: and see if you can
Lenore: identify the feelings that arose for you.
Lenore: If you're not sure it's clean.
Lenore: if you think, or if if it's if it's not on the list here. you know, feel free to check
Lenore: with me, or we can share it with the group of is this a clean
Lenore: feeling
Lenore: when it's a hard conflict. My husband and I literally get out these sheets. and we sit down and we take the time.
Lenore: and we prepare what we're going to say.
Lenore: It's worth it.
But
Lenore: yes, I think that's a whole.
Lenore: Isn't that a I think it's on there. Yep.
Lenore: but hurt is definitely a feeling.
Lenore: Yet
what is it the next
Lenore: but hurts feeling hurts a feeling. Yep.
Lenore: and get this quiet.
Lenore: She's not on there.
Thank you.
Lenore: Hurts definitely a feeling
Lenore: hope I didn't accidentally leave any off.
Lenore: Have a look at the
Lenore: original.
It's on the original. Don't tell me I've left it off here.
Lenore: I I will. Actually, what I'll do is I'll send all of you
Lenore: because I've sent these to the online people already. But I'll send the original one to all of you tonight so that you've got the full thing.
Lenore: Did anyone need? Need any
Lenore: alleged feelings checked?
Lenore: Okay? So as we do this, start to construct a
Lenore: an imagined statement that you might make if you were to redo this conflict.
Lenore: Yeah, okay.
Lenore: is feeling small.
Lenore: feeling small.
Lenore: Well, for me. Personally, I wouldn't feel that was an accusation if someone said. I feel small.
this people
Lenore: small. That's a good question.
Lenore: No? Well.
Lenore: I mean, I say
Lenore: this smaller feeling
that is
Lenore: diminished as a little bit of an interpretation, isn't it?
Lenore: Yeah, it's not. Yeah. Is it a feeling, though? That's a really good question to feel small.
Lenore: yeah.
Lenore: Oh, but then that could that could be an accusation, couldn't it? You're diminishing me
Lenore: say, feeling of being
feeling, of being.
Lenore: but is smaller feeling. That's a really good question
Lenore: is being smaller feeling
you can feel.
Lenore: can you?
Lenore: I didn't know that small is a feeling
saying, I feel like thanks.
Lenore: So what does a lost little child feel like? Forlorn. vulnerable?
Lenore: What was that, John? No abandon to action?
Lenore: Second pardon. chagrind. that's not really so. I think that's a bit different.
Lenore: Speak powerless. Yeah. Powerless.
Lenore: can you riff on that, Kate? Like, are there? What other? What else goes along with Small, do you?
Lenore: Can you say more about the feeling
Lenore: we're talking about? Is is smaller feeling? And Lenore asked, if I'm if I can, I expand on it, and I
Lenore: think I feel it a lot. And
Lenore: it's since I've been exploring
Lenore: self-compassion. and I realize that a lot of the time. And
what?
Lenore: The I, when I'm feeling and
Lenore: hurt, confused a lot of these these very helpful and
Lenore: feelings that you've got on the list that underneath. That is a little child who is looking for.
Lenore: and approval, reassurance
Lenore: belonging. A whole lot of things go into the bundle of feeling
Lenore: like a little
Lenore: little child. The little part of me is prominent at the moment
Lenore: from your Friday
Lenore: restaurant. And
Lenore: Hi, John here.
won't you?
Lenore: That's standard panelists. all those things. Yes. So I suppose my short, my shorthand for that is feeling little.
Lenore: Yeah, and it's not. It's
Lenore: we'll try it out on each other in a minute when we finish creating this statement. Thank you. We'll have a go. And the main. The main thing is that it doesn't put the other person on a defensive.
Lenore: and and it communicates, you know, clearly.
So yeah, we'll try it out.
Lenore: I'm just wondering whether you can have a combination, maybe insecure and confuse. Yep, you can have definitely more than one thing to try and have more than one word to show you feeling
Lenore: definitely. In fact, it's really frequent that we feel more than one thing.
Lenore: Can you just go through like how we put together a little playbook again? Yep, so we'll yep. We're doing it step by step at the moment. So you've got your stimulus. You know what it was that I remember that happened or didn't happen.
Lenore: I felt, and where we're identifying the feelings now,
Lenore: and so we're just going to get the the data for each section, and then we'll put it all together.
Lenore: okay. So
Lenore: the next. The next part of it is
Lenore: the need that I am trying to fill here.
Lenore: So this is where your other piece of paper, or those with the one at home. It's the second part of your handout. It's after the needs.
Lenore: Oh, you've sent them this black and white one.
that part.
Lenore: Oh, okay, okay. So there is a single black and white page. That is called
Lenore: needs inventory. Title is needs inventory.
Lenore: And this gives us a list of needs. So when you think about this situation, and you think about the feelings that arose.
Lenore: What was the need that was being thwarted, or that was smarting
Lenore: when this situation occurred.
Lenore: What need was at risk? What need felt like it was at risk.
Lenore: And then the last section is. what would you have liked in that situation? So if you could have the situation over again?
Lenore: What is it that you would like instead of what you got
Lenore: from that person.
Lenore: I wonder if the people at home can hear the rain?
Lenore: We've had a 40 degree day here. online, friends. and now it's storming and raining.
Lenore: What's that? Oh, is it raining?
Lenore: Yeah.
Lenore: 28 plus.
Lenore: But
Lenore: thanks. I'm a bit. I'm not quite sure what I would apply. Is that not? Hmm! Oh, sorry! A bit confusing.
Lenore: What I would like is that not needs, or what behaviour would you like
Lenore: so in future? So you know what I didn't like was that I made a suggestion, and he ignored it and changed the topic. What I would like would be to at least acknowledge that I've
Lenore: shared an idea. Okay, thanks. Yeah. So the behavior.
Lenore: So there are 4 elements essentially to our statement. What? What? I so saw heard the feelings that arose, the needs that were being yeah, that were smarting
Lenore: or not being met. And what I'd like. So now see if you can massage that. What you've got. You've got those 4 elements there. See if you can massage that into a statement.
Lenore: and because it's something that you're remembering.
Lenore: then we want to keep it as in the moment as we can. So you would want to start with when I remember, or when I think about
Lenore: X, y's the the behavior of a stimulus
Lenore: I feel.
Lenore: and then you insert the feelings you've identified
Lenore: because of my needs for. or because I really value.
Lenore: which have A, or you might have some other words that can communicate, that this is to do with needs or things that I really value. Insert your needs that you've identified.
Lenore: and then
Lenore: and these are my words, but feel free to muck around with them yourself.
Lenore: What I'd like in future is, or what had really helped me
Lenore: next time this happens is.
Lenore: or I'd really appreciate it. If
Lenore: so, feel free to make that yours
Lenore: and then you'll ask for the kind of behavior that you would like to get next time
Lenore: and make sure that behavior is specific enough.
Lenore: that it's really clear what it is you're asking for.
Lenore: Bernah
Lenore: Bernard, was I clear enough in my answer to you?
Lenore: But there's nothing you can probably do in the moment. But then to come back to it later. And the issue is then how we deal with conflict
Lenore: is in the issue that we need to talk about. Yeah.
Lenore: 2 months in that situation.
Lenore: could you not in that situation start by acknowledging the person's feeling, which is the active ingredient in the conflicting situation?
Lenore: In the moment? Do you mean in in the moment when they're feeling steamed up, and perhaps deal with that because you see them and they are angry. They are hurt.
Lenore: so you might help them deal with their anger and hurt, and then find yourself able to move on to the underlying conflict
Lenore: in in a situation. Yes, I think, acknowledging you, I can see you really upset. Why don't we leave it for now.
Lenore: or can we come back to it in 20 min? Although just the first sentence might actually lead you into the start of amending process. I can see you're really upset.
Lenore: Yes, I am really absolutely because but but but so you're starting essentially with a focus on their feeling and need rather than yours. but with an intention of
Lenore: it, may do. I'm assuming from what they're not said the other person is is not amenable to
Lenore: nodding. So yeah, I mean, it depends on the situation. But the person is not
Lenore: capable. And remember, we're talking about a situation where we've raised an issue. So it's my issue. And I'm wanting to talk about it. And the other person's just gone off.
Lenore: So
Lenore: yeah, acknowledging the feeling is probably all you can do and suggest coming back to it if they're not open to coming back to it. Then.
Lenore: as I say, then the issue becomes something different. It becomes, how do we, as a couple deal with conflict?
Lenore: So does any any other questions about the process, or what you've written down, or
Lenore: words that you've chosen. Yeah, James.
sorry.
Lenore: I think it's around Gallon's Point. The conflict I've been describing is one where someone I was attacked
Lenore: and they were really upset. Can we saying We can work with that? Or
Lenore: is that feasible? So is the conversation.
Lenore: them raising an issue with you? Or is it you? Yeah, raising an issue with them, raising issue with me? Okay, so this process is for you raising an issue with someone else. Yeah. So there's probably work it in there. I think.
Lenore: Yeah, it's it's a little bit different. If somebody's raising an issue with you, and they're raising it in a really unhelpful way. Yeah. I mean our job when someone comes, you know, to us with an issue is to try and listen and try and understand
Lenore: if we're finding, we just can't, because it's so unconstructive and so reactive, or maybe even aggressive. Or what have you again. Taking time out can be a really good, you know. I want to hear what you have to say. But I'm feeling threatened. Yeah, and shocked
Lenore: and defensive. Yes.
Lenore: Can we come back to it
Lenore: when we come? Yeah, yeah.
Lenore: man, this rain is getting loud.
Lenore: Any other, any any anyone else have some other questions.
Lenore: Linda, Linda, Linda online has a question.
Lenore: You're gonna have to speak loudly because we've got
Lenore: really heavy rain in here at the moment.
Lynda: Yeah, okay, can. Can you hear me?
Lynda: Is that okay? Yep, that's good. Okay. So
Lynda: quite. Some time ago, now, I with a dam a friend started to work with. some of the principles of insight. Dialogue is set up by Orange. What's his name? Orange? So far? And
Lynda: I really struggled with reconstructing
Lynda: the language used when communicating issues in a situation of possible conflict.
Lynda: And just
and as an example
Lynda: the words, for instance. I feel defensive.
Lynda: To me implies that the other person has somehow attacked.
Lynda: Yeah. So
Lynda: I just find the choice of words in the more nonviolent list.
Can still imply
Lynda: or have a a negative implication for the other person. And
Lynda: II get lost in the the subtleties of the word choices to be honest. Yeah. Comment on that.
Lenore: Yeah, I can it, especially when you're starting out trying to use this, it can feel really clunky.
Lenore: Yes, you can. You can have these kind of get. Tie yourself in knots about. Is this the right one? Or is this a feeling, or is this
Lenore: Is this implying an accusation? Or what have you?
Lenore: My my kind of approach to is, if I can think of a better one. I'll spend the time and try and think of a better one. That doesn't have any danger attached to it of being because I mean defensive.
Lenore: All it says is, I'm perceiving attack, I guess, but it's saying that the feeling is I'm I'm defending
Lenore: But
Lenore: if you can find a better one if you can find one that doesn't imply
Lenore: anything from anyone. Go with it.
Lynda: yeah. The the thing. So you've got a
Lenore: communicate how you feel
Lenore: so that's why I say, we literally sit down with the list, and we'll sometimes say, Well, why don't we take 10 min and think about what we want to say, and we'll go and we'll sit literally down with our feelings and needs lists, and
Lenore: and plan what what we want to say.
Lynda: Hmm, hmm, hmm!
Lenore: And it can feel, you know. very unnatural.
Lenore: But I tell you it
Lenore: it can a save you several hours. A lot of angst.
Lenore: and be really good for your relationship.
Lynda: So can I just add something else? Then? Sorry. Sorry. Is, is that
Lynda: okay? Is that okay? Can you use the company, you know.
Lynda: Oh, there we are. Okay. Alright. So
Lynda: The other aspect of this style of communication.
Lynda: which I would like to master, but have never really been successful at it implies to me also that it's most useful in a relationship of some intimacy of some degree, whether it be with a close friend or an intimate partner, or you know a a trusted colleague, for instance.
Lynda: In circumstances where conflict can arise, whether it be the workplace or in social situations.
Lynda: The other person, is not necessarily engaged in this commitment to nonviolent language. So yeah, I'm I'm sort of wondering as to the value of its wider application, if, indeed, it's possible. Yeah, really good point. I use an abridged version.
Lenore: I wouldn't. I'd skip the needs thing if I was talking to someone who quite possibly doesn't care about my needs. I just wouldn't even bother with it. Yeah.
Lenore: Nevertheless, no matter what the situation. If you can build a habit of using clean language for your feelings when you express them.
Lenore: it will help. Yeah.
Lynda: okay, thank you. You're welcome
Lenore: any other help before. What I'm going to suggest we do is as our last little activity. Just hop into pairs and try it out on each other
Lenore: as if
Lenore: the other person is the person you're saying it to
Lenore: see how it lands. Does the other person think that the the feelings. Words you chose were easy to listen to, or is there a better one.
Lenore: and and help each other? Refine it if you need to.
Lenore: and then we'll just see how that. how that went.
Lenore: So is there a question yeah.
Lenore: just to clarify? We don't expect the other person to respond. No, they're just listening and thinking. Okay, if I was.
Lenore: if I was, the person receiving this
Lenore: did did was, did the language feel clean, or did I? Was there something in there that kind of got my heckles up. Or.
Lenore: yeah, which may or may not be realistic. Given. They're not the person that you're talking to. Yeah, maybe just a side question. So I tried a similar technique in a work setting and
Lenore: in the lot of situations, the other person starts to divert and saying I was stressed because of that and that and that, and just kind of taking away from the actual matter that we're discussing here
Lenore: any suggestions how to bring it back to.
Lenore: This is what I feel, and this is what I'd like you to do next time, and people just saying, but because you know what happened that 15 min before we spoke, and that that's why I was like that. Yep, so if I can answer just as an example of the cuff. If that happened to me, and I felt well, they weren't really acknowledging what it was I was trying to communicate. I might, I might say something like, Okay, yep, I understand.
Lenore: The point I'm trying to get across to you is
Lenore: when da da da, I feel black.
Lenore: and it'd be really helpful. I just I just bring them back to it. Reiterated, thank you. Yeah.
Hall (Host-Alan): Okay. People people at home.
Lenore: Thanks. So are we describing the whole scene to to the other person.
Lenore: Sorry? Right? Okay.
Lenore: yeah. But you don't set the scene for them.
Lenore: It's insights that anyone want to end up tweaking any of their statements. Did it? Yeah.
Lenore: thoughts about the process?
Lenore: Yeah. James, yeah.
Lenore: A. One thought was, Yeah.
Lenore: you know, I was talking about incident with my sister-in-law classic. But but there's all that you you don't just land these situations out of nowhere. You know. There's all this back story and it's not always about the thing. I guess that was an observation, and I must add to that.
Lenore: So say a bit more about it's not always about the thing
Lenore: this is a pretty fun, pretty ridiculous story! But I'd left a wet towel on the floor, and it turned into what was now called, tell gate but
Lenore: But I was really triggered by, and it was. I was accused of leaving this wet tail on the floor, and was leaving, and in a hurry to go somewhere with a big group, and I was driving
Lenore: of. But it wasn't about the towel. That's what we were saying. It wasn't about the towel. Yeah.
Lenore: and I, yeah, I guess when I think about that, I think like
Lenore: it's it's
Lenore: it's probably about having several of these discussions, you know, like not just
Lenore: falling. And there are all patterns of like. you know that I have with my sister-in-law. So you know.
Lenore: So yeah, it's revealing. Did the process?
Lenore: was it the process that revealed? It's not about the thing, it's about something else. The process of actually going through and going. Okay, what were the feelings reveal that? I think I knew I didn't know that already. Okay, I've got, you know, confirmation of that from my partner.
Lenore: or at least anything, since you guys as well
Lenore: think they they
Lenore: process was quite
Lenore: good. It felt very theoretical. I would. It would almost yeah, definitely not play out like that in real life.
Lenore: yeah.
Lenore: sorry. It's John on the other half of the discussion. think the
Lenore: The other insight we had was this point, that comes out out of meditation as well. The is recognizing the opportunity of that gap between stimulus and response.
Lenore: And just
Lenore: when we catch the feeling straight away. When we someone is just put something on you that's out of the blue. And you think you know, wtf, where did this come from, you know.
Lenore: and you're holding that to yourself if you can actually just momentarily pause.
Lenore: we thought that that actually at least seems and
Lenore: an acknowledgement to the other person that you've been heard.
Lenore: and then you've got
Lenore: choose. I can't talk about this at the moment, or start the dialogue.
Lenore: But we I think it's fair to say, James, we thought that if we put this into the work situation it can be very appear very contrived, and there's often other perceptive overlays in there, like if it's the team leader is having a conversation with someone who's
Lenore: subordinate.
Lenore: then you're already in a
Lenore: a power power dynamic.
perceived or real, when things can sort of go sour.
Lenore: which is what leads me. And we didn't discuss this last bit to think about. This is really about importance of
Lenore: working hard on trust and making yourself trust ourselves trustworthy with other people, and also being very clear about
Lenore: other people when they are trustworthy
Lenore: and growing those relationships and and upstream, doing things like in an intimate situation, and that you really care about
Lenore: of doing other things that will actually be preventive of things coming up. And, you know, blowing up or getting out of control.
Lenore: and I can just use one example. About that, I'm sure Meredith won't mind. But we in our marriage we have this thing called we're weekly check-in.
Lenore: and
Lenore: it's generally like a cup of coffee on Sunday morning and sit down, and we take it in turns.
Lenore: And one person speaks without being interrupted for 10 min. Just
Lenore: yeah. It's very hot.
Lenore: And and the
Lenore: thanks, guys. And it's about listening attentively
Lenore: to the other person's what they're saying. Their feelings, their demeanours, and how they are. And the only question that
Lenore: get said at the end of the 10 min is anything to clarify? Or did I understand that you feeling upset about such as it might not be to do with me, it might be to do with work or something else.
Lenore: And then What could I do
Lenore: this week, or now that might help you
Lenore: and name waste? Swap turns
Lenore: well the other way around. So I guess what I'm trying to say by sharing that is that if you can think about the taking the opportunities to proactively keep on building the trust and building on it. That becomes a bit preventative and actually gives you a depth. And you build up a fair amount of forgiveness factor.
Lenore: Absolutely.
Lenore: Yeah. I mean, obviously.
Lenore: the the goodwill. And the trust that we build up in a relationship over time makes any of these processes go much smoother and allows for more mistakes. And assuming the best. And yeah, being able to bounce back. And
Lenore: yeah, yeah, because I think the underlying thing, even in the work situation, is to try and get across the genuineness of
Lenore: you're I don't think you're not an okay person. It's just that this behavior in this circumstance caused me some distress or concern, or where it was. And then the playbook comes in.
Lenore: Yeah, how was it for you? Yeah. Were you were you saying before in when you're talking about the work situation
Lenore: and the power dynamic that you think. Are you suggesting that you think it mightn't be usable in that situation this kind of process? No, I'm not. I'm not suggesting that it wouldn't be usable, but I think it sort of be because of power or other dynamics
Lenore: you've got to get. You've you've got to have some level of trustworthiness and trust build up.
Lenore: even at a basic level, to be, have the sort of granularity of specific feelings. And what I need, etc. Yeah, so it I can know. And I've used it a lot over the years.
Lenore: Something similar
Lenore: that in work situations are gonna be very, very helpful. But it's not necessarily helpful. Until you've done some
Lenore: onboarding of each other
Lenore: on your team
Lenore: that there's there's some some level of least basic trust that's already been established. Yeah, I'd also add that this builds trust big time.
Lenore: And because you're being honest about your feelings, I mean. One of the alternatives as a manager is to just kind of pull rank, you know. Tell the other person what to do.
Lenore: tell them what they did was wrong. Whereas if you're actually sharing some of
Lenore: how something impacted you, even if you don't go, the whole needs route and just say when that happens. But sometimes people aren't used to that level of sure forthrightness.
Lenore: And then sometimes some people actually don't use it authentically.
Lenore: So, yeah, okay, I can trust you, and then you go off and do the exact opposite. So trust and trustworthiness comes into it. Equation for me. Yeah, these things definitely occur in a relationship. So if the relationship has a history of trust breaking down.
Lenore: query whether you should even go there and maybe given the reaction I got, maybe you know, I was just talking to Ellen a minute ago. If anyone likes this sort of stuff, the Gottman Institute. So John Gottman is a psychiatrist who spent his career.
Lenore: He's a researcher and and practitioner on marital relationships, and his claim to fame is that he can predict. It takes him 5 min
Lenore: to predict with about 90% accuracy whether a couple is going to get divorced or not.
Lenore: the way that he does it is he sticks them in a room, and he gets them to discuss a contentious topic. So he basically gets them to have a conflict. and that that is how he can tell with 90% accuracy by how they go about. Conflict
Lenore: is whether they're going to get divorced or not.
Lenore: and he talks about 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, he calls them. and these are 4 behaviors that that
Lenore: additively predict divorce. And so they are. Criticism.
Lenore: defensiveness. stonewalling.
Lenore: So just, you know, cutting off from walking away
Lenore: and contempt.
Lenore: So they're the 4 biggies
Lenore: in terms of your your marriage is in trouble, or your relationship is in trouble. If these any any, let alone multiple of those things are going on.
Lenore: Yeah. So criticism. defensiveness. stonewalling and contempt.
Lenore: And this process helps you sidestep
Lenore: all of those things.
Lenore: any other insights, questions.
Lenore: funny stories.
Lenore: It's time for meditation.
Lenore: Was that a hand almost going up? No, you were. You were messing with your hair? Okay? Fabulous. Well, thanks, guys, and thanks for getting into it. That's our last little activity for the week.
Thank you.